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u/DoctorVictors 19 hours ago Discussion

Amazon: everything lies in the margins

Amazon is my biggest position as I think it is the best company in the world at the moment. Their big tech infrastructure coupled with their logistics network that now features its personal aviation and its own starlink (Amazon Leo) is simply a deadly combination. The issue I have with AMZN is that it is so hard to give a fair value to the business. It hugely depends on the margins they will be able to achieve in the future. I ran 3 DCFs assuming x3 revenue growth in 10 years and sligthly changing the target operating margin wildly changes the final fair value price: DCF 1 20% margin --> 149.58$ DCF 2 25% margin --> 202.18$ DCF 3 30% margin --> 254.77$ as you can see the jumps are very sharp. Nonetheless I think that the company at the moment is rather ovevalued. I can't see realistically Amazon growing its revenues 3x AND having a 30% margin. Regardless of that what do you think? Cloud, advertising and services as well as logistics improvement can deffinitely help Amazon margin grow over time. The question is how much they will grow.
8 comments held Reddit says 0 on reddit ↗
  1. u/[deleted] 1 18 hours ago

    [deleted] — already gone when the archive first saw it

  2. u/HarambeTooSoon 1 18 hours ago
    The fastest growing revenue segments are the highest margins, and it continues to shed low margin retailing - with approximately 70% of goods sold on Amazon these days being 3rd party sales. 
  3. u/civil_politics 1 18 hours ago
    As far as I see it AWS is already the largest cloud provider and has been for awhile - if the hyperscalers are right and AI is a cash cow once the DCs are online then it stands that AWS will be at the top of the podium - GCP, with their own pretty decent model offerings will be a fierce competitor, but most shops are just gonna stick with the cloud infrastructure they already have deployed since from a capability perspective there really isn’t much difference across the board. I think Leo, One Medical, Zoox and some of the other big bets they have are really worthwhile although they each have their own bull/bear cases. Leo is an absolute game changer if they can monetize and market it right and since starlink has demonstrated the value the risk associated with it is purely on the balance sheet side and I’m pretty confident it will be able to operate with fairly healthy margins if they can win defense and airline and shipping customers. Zoox is a bit behind Tesla and quite a bit behind Waymo, but this isn’t a winner take all industry and frankly Waymo is handling all the legislative nightmares and rolling out the proverbial red carpet for other entrants. The one medical and Amazon pharma pieces are where I’m a bit skeptical just because the number of players who have come in saying they are gonna fix the industry is too many to count and every year the situation appears to deteriorate further.
  4. u/librariancap 1 11 hours ago
    With rounding AlphabeAWS will be at the top of the podium ... GCP, with their own pretty decent model offerings will be a fierce competitor, but most shops are just gonna stick with the cloud infrastructure they already have deployed since
    In the latest quarter (26Q2), AWS has the lowest revenue growth rate among the Big 3 (37%, vs. Google Cloud's 82% and Azure's 43%) and, with rounding, Google Cloud has the same amount of dollar growth as AWS ($11.1bn vs. $11.4bn).
  5. u/SheikhMahdeek 1 18 hours ago
    RIP circle of competence
  6. u/Trick_Job3956 1 15 hours ago
    Your three outputs are exactly linear: 149.58, 202.18, 254.77 is +52.6 each step, so the model is worth about $10.50 a share per point of terminal operating margin. Once you notice that, the DCF isn't really giving you a fair value, it's converting a margin guess into a price. I'd invert it instead. Take today's price, keep the 3x revenue, and solve for the operating margin that's implied. Then you only have one number to argue about, and you can ask whether it's a margin the business has ever been near. The other issue is that your two assumptions pull against each other. Tripling revenue means most of the incremental dollars come from retail and international, which are the thin-margin parts, while the 30% case only works if AWS and ads dominate the mix. You can't really have both in the same scenario, so I'd run the segments separately with their own growth and margin rather than one blended number. And with capex where it is right now I'd anchor on FCF instead of operating margin anyway. They've revised server depreciation assumptions more than once, and that moves reported margin on its own without anything changing in the business.
  7. u/Weak_Alternative_168 1 14 hours ago
    AWS was $128.7b of the $716.9b of net sales last year, and $45.6b of the $80.0b of operating income. So 18% of revenue and 57% of the profit. Consolidated operating margin was 11.2%, North America around 7%, international under 3%. The bit I would push on is that your growth input and your margin input are not independent. If revenue triples and the mix holds, AWS is still 18% of the top line and the blended margin barely moves. Getting to 30% consolidated needs cloud and ads growing a lot faster than retail, which is a different assumption from 3x overall. Also your 20% case is already close to double last year's consolidated margin.
  8. u/librariancap 1 13 hours ago
    Slop. The DCF that uses a 0.5x higher margin produces a NPV that is \~0.5x higher. So what?